Actually, these Gender-normative SJWs should be THANKING you. You are driving new blood, which sells memberships, which increases readership which increases exposure. If the Worldcon members were smart, they’d take ownership of this and say it was their idea all along.
I believe Wright came on board with Tor while he was an atheist (although a fairly conservative atheist, if I understand his biography correctly). Who you will *welcome* and who you will tolerate once they’ve already been around and successful for a while are not always the same set.
Tor publishes Gene Wolfe, who is a Catholic and a conservative. But maybe that’s because he’s been so spectacularly good for so many years. (Shadow of the Torturer was published in 1980, and he was already writing gobsmackingly brilliant stories in the 70’s.)
All this hate toward Larry, and the SJW and GHH crowd doesn’t get how much damage their doing to their own side.
Seriously, despite being a political blogger for the past seven years now, I never ran into as many of these people (virtually or in real life) as I have since the Hugo nominations were announced. I’m telling you, they are the outliers, even among most progressives. While those progs don’t necessarily disagree with what we’re seeing here, they are at least smart enough not to espouse it.
Now, everyone is seeing the crazy, and even a lot of people with lefty tendencies are concerned at what they’re seeing.
Glenn, probably knows this, and hence why the story got in USA Today. It hurts their side, as it should.
Are you clicking on the same link I am? Because it’s still broke.
Is it possible that it was briefly down when you first attempted to access it, and now you’re getting a cached version of the page? The link up at the top works for me.
SFF author Nebula nominee and SFWA member Kate Elliott: “Those beloved white male intellectual guys who write important works abt white male stuff. That can’t be shit. They say so!”
ReaderCon fantastic literature convention panelist, Tor.com blogger and SFF author Alex MacFarlane: “I am so fucking angry at this idea some editors seem to have that the best science fiction stories are those written by men. White men, naturally. Straight. Western.”
Author nominated for the John W. Campbell and Hugo Awards and winner of the Nebula and Locus Awards Aliette de Bodard writing about Vietnamese ads: “I don’t know to what extent it’s White domination playing out… ”
SFF author and SFWA member Jim Hines:”It’s so HARD being a straight white male author these days”
WisCon SF Convention organizer and co-manager of WisCon’s racially segregated “safer-space” K. Tempest Bradford: “cracka ass cracka”
K. Tempest Bradford: “…default settings are usually McEurope populated by Whitey McWhiterson”
K. Tempest Bradford: “But we expect this (a rape on TV) from most shows because most shows are bullshit, badly written, & aimed right at the white, male gaze.”
SFF author Beth Bernobich on story of 234 girls kidnapped by Islamic Boko Haram in Nigeria: “let’s see some men retweet this as well. @scalzi? @wilw? @neilhimself? ”
SFF author Silvia Moreno-Garcia after reading an anti-PC diversity post: “Can someone please think about the white people?! Ugh.”
Reply from SFF author Jim Hines: “But as a white dude, I feel it’s important for me to tell you YOU’RE FIGHTING RACISM WRONG!!!”
Reply from SFF author Beth Bernobich: “If you really care about women and minorities, stop wailing about ‘points of view’. Listen and learn. If POC were only nicer, white people would listen. Except it’s not really a problem. (/sarcasm)”
“Writing Excuses Scholarship Announcement
“The Carl Brandon Society, in conjunction with the crew of the Writing Excuses podcast, is proud to announce the formation of a scholarship aimed at writers of color
“The scholarship selection panel consists of Wesley Chu, SILVIA-MORENO GARCIA, John Lawson, and K. TEMPEST BRADFORD (Carl Brandon Society Steering Committee).
“I’m 1/4th Black/Native American/Latino/Chinese/etc, do I qualify for this scholarship?
“If you consider yourself a person of color, you should apply. Many POC can pass as white, and that brings with it a cultural understanding that is just as important as the understanding a non-passing POC brings to the genre”
Well, it is a clear differential that on the one side is that which respects the talent of the work produced and reading it for its own intrinsic merit versus a message driven work produced by politically acceptable authors.
It’s not perfect, but it’s far better than any alternative. Tasers only work when current is applied, one can become inured to pepper spray by hitting the local wing join frequently enough, and kicking someone in the goolies might make him curl up into the fetal position. Or it could make him want to bounce whatever kicked him off the pavement a dozen-few times.
Poke some holes in a person and the blood starts coming out. When blood pressure gets too low people stop.
The problem with your very simple applicable approach is location. If you live in places like Chicago or Washington DC where they made it impossible (or nearly impossible) to obtain firearms legally, your only reasonable option is to move to a firearm friendly jurisdiction. Otherwise, arming yourself is considered a felony.
As someone striving to join the professional SFF author community, I’ve been watching this row unfold with the existential horror of a child seeing his dad hit his mom and blame her for making him do it; then seeing her stab him with a fillet knife.
The classical definition of art is a work executed according to the standards of a craft. Can anyone give a rational justification for judging a work on anything other than its merit?
It’s apparent that one side in particular is pushing ideology before craft, and the other side is trying to defend itself. There are also people I look up to on both sides. Sadly, the rupture seems to be on such a basic level as to be irreconcilable.
I don’t think “reconcile” is going to be the word. To me the problem is simple: you have “activists” who either suffer from mental health issues or simply hate whites, men, and heterosexuals who’ve been extremely clever and successful in inserting their pathologies into an anti-oppression framework.
We’re talking about people so crazy they list being ignored as sexual harassment and living in America as analogous to being punched every day. And that’s when they’re not claiming people want to drag them behind pick up trucks. So of course SFF has to be dragged behind a truck to wake us all up.
The result is you have some non-whites who are racists claiming they are actually speaking from oppression. You have some feminists who hate men claiming they are actually speaking from oppression. You have some gay folks who don’t like heterosexuals who are claiming they speak from oppression.
Where the Orwellian part comes in is that the PC who are their allies cannot for the life of them conceive of a woman, gay, or non-white who is simply a bigot. They just can’t envision that. The weirder part of that is how easily they buy into the other side of that, which is how easily whites, men, and heterosexuals CAN be bigots. That’s almost a pitch perfect definition of a paranoid’s world, and the do-gooder PC have bought into it hook, line, and sinker.
Go onto Shanley Kane’s Twitter feed right now and observe the techworld meltdown that’s now days in the making. And some of the people at Kane’s magazine have their fingers in SFF conventions to the hilt, thanks to anti-harassment hero Scalzi.
Making it worse, in liberalism, there is this thing called moral relativism. That means every viewpoint, no matter how nuts, must be listened to, ESPECIALLY if it’s presented in an anti-oppression framework. Well, that’s what crazy people and con men have latched onto and they know it works. Read this about an SFF webzine:
“…the mission of Crossed Genres Publications: to give a voice to people often ignored or marginalized in SFF, which has led us to publish titles focused on older women, overweight women, immigration, skilled laborers, QUILTBAG families, and people marginalized throughout history.”
How nuttier can you get? And that is mainstream orthodoxy in the SFWA. And I’ll give you three guesses as to who’s been doing the marginalizing. Yup, the straight white male. “THROUGHOUT HISTORY.” The new anthology from Crossed Genres – Long Hidden – claims that marginalization goes back to the “dawn of time.” That’s insanely stupid for anyone who’s ever even glanced at a history book. These people literally think white men have been on every one’s asses for 5,000 years, and no one else has ever enslaved, conquered, colonized. Long Hidden has the same rhetoric as its publisher:
“People with less power, money, or status—enslaved people, indigenous people, people of color, queer people, laborers, women, people with disabilities, the very young and very old, and religious minorities, among others—are relegated to the margins.”
Guess who’s missing there: yup – the straight white male. And don’t be surprised Rose Fox and Daniel Jose Older are co-editors. Fox – review editor for Publisher’s Weekly – lamented on Twitter she had to read work by/about straight white men. Older is more paranoid about whites than N.K. Jemisin, which I’d have thought impossible.
And Jemisin’s the one who wrote “I realized two things: a) that Heinlein was racist as fuck, and b) most of science fiction fandom was too…” Look up Older writing about “white saviors” in movies and “an anti-oppressive SFF.” It’s illuminating to say the least.
If you look back at history, some sort of anti-oppression always energizes hate speech. Even the KKK originally claimed oppression. It’s that facade of not only reasonability but nobility that allows what would otherwise be seen as simple hatred to be mainstreamed into the public arena, and that’s what we’re seeing here. That’s also when hate speech gets dangerous, because it becomes institutionalized, and that’s also what we’re seeing here. Mental illness and sheer hate along with do-gooder PC morons is what is doing this.
Look clearly at these people. Kameron Hurley – nominated for a BFSA, Arthur C. Clarke, Locus, Nebula, Hugo, and Tiptree Awards, is still claiming nameless people want to kill her. Today she wrote:
“There’s difference between ‘I don’t like person X because we disagree on tax law’ & ‘I don’t like person X because they’d like to kill me.’ I do hope folks can tell difference. Course, it’s easier to put ‘wants to kill me’ down to ‘politics’ when it’s not you they’re gunning for”
Look at all those nominations, look at Hurley’s fantasy-world Hugo-nominated blog post where women have always fought and men “erased” that, and that people want to kill her, extrapolate that out to the entirety of the PC SFF community, and you see the problem. There is no reconciliation with that. People have to stop listening to these people, stop giving them platforms, marginalize them into the swamps, and that’s that. The fact that people talk more about severely magnified, almost imaginary and paranoid oppression than they do SFF should be a wake up call that all is not sane in this culture. The insane and hateful won’t cure themselves. They simply have to be shunted off to one side.
Looks like Jemisin’s leading the charge on the SJW crowd holding a Synodus Horrenda on Heinlein. We can’t be too surprised. We had to know it was coming.
You know, I’m an older, overweight woman, and I’ve never had any trouble about being ignored. Of course, I’m competent and intelligent and I don’t whine. And, you know, I’ve got a friend, she’s middle-aged and overweight, and she’s a director at NASA and she doesn’t have any trouble, either. And there’s my other friend, older, not overweight, but tough and wiry, and she’s been a rocket engineer at NASA for decades, and is currently working for the Dept of Defense on an I’d-tell-you-but-then-I’d-have-to-kill-you project. And she’s never had any trouble, not at NASA, or the Air Force before that where she designed planes.
But, again, we’re all smart, competent, good teammates and, above all, reasonable.
(My goal in life is to become one of those Lady Bracknell dragon-ladies that seem to terrify young men. :-))
“Looks like Jemisin’s leading the charge on the SJW crowd holding a Synodus Horrenda on Heinlein. ”
Current Amazon sales rank for Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein, published in 1959: 3,158
Current Amazon sales rank for The Killing Moon by N.K. Jemisin, published in 2012: 74,707
Starship Troopers was an awesome book. Whatever idiot made the movies should be hanged with his own celluloid.
Note that the 55 year old Starship Troopers is still available in hardcover.
Congratulations, Larry. . . . you’re about to sell a metric buttload of books. . . .
Think of us little people, when you expand the Yard Moose Mountain domain to cover several Western States. . . . . (grin)
Larry, to make the circle complete, I think what you should do is to explain to everyone, in a self-effacing, humble way, how their kind, compassionate, well-reasoned arguments have made you realize the error of your ways. You have Seen The Light. Then, remind them that, if they care about Diversity, they really ought to vote for “Hard Magic” for best novel, since it is the only one written by a Person of Color.
Oh, and try to keep from snickering or guffawing while you do this. It is unbecoming for a grown man to smirk.
So, does this mean that from now on, ANY Latino who touches a gun and likes it will be dubbed a “White Hispanic” and have his village razed and pillaged? Because (don’t tell the SJWs) there are at least a couple of Hispanics we’ve let into the Army!
Now is the time to PANIC!
So, does this mean that from now on, ANY Latino who touches a gun and likes it will be dubbed a “White Hispanic” and have his village razed and pillaged?
Shouldn’t that be pillaged and then razed? Priorities…
1. Pillage, then burn
Plus we’ll rape the horses and ride off on the women!
Worse yet if you vote for Wheel of time not only are you voting against a person of color your supporting a white male who was a decorated member of the most vile imperialist organization in all of history, the United States military!!
I’ve been meaning to buy the Monster Hunters series for some time now. All the caterwauling of the SJWs has made me hurry up and buy “The Monster Hunters”. They wish they could write as well as you can.
Sad to see things getting too heated up (although maybe it shouldn’t be any surprise when this involves people like Vox Day).
However, I think Larry’s initial argument is not necessarily a correct one. He suspected that Hugo nominees and winners get elected because of their political leanings, not artistic merits or entertainment value.
It strikes me as a weird conclusion. Different people have different tastes, don’t they? It’s quite clear that there’s a sizeable audience which likes to read books that mr. Correia and his fans don’t like (the Scalzis, the Jemisins etc.).
Correia fans, on the other hand, haven’t traditionally attended Worldcons or voted for the Hugos. This year a significant number of them are going to do that (there was a huge increase in the nominating ballots, so there are likely new people voting). That’s why the shortlist looks a little bit different.
And that’s it. I don’t think there’s any Leftist conspiracy in all this.
Would Heinlein get awarded today, then? Maybe, maybe not. He and his audience were both products of their time (just as we are), so it’s hard to speculate.
That whooshing sound you just heard? That was the point flying past your head.
If you don’t think there is any leftist conspiracy in all this, I’d invite you to plug my name into Google and search since the nominations were announced. I’d advise you to start at Making Light, where the editors from a major publishing house flat out tell their readers to vote based on politics. You can make your way across the internet from there.
I thought this would make a good blog post, so I began cutting and pasting. I put together about 30 pages of conspiracy crap, personal attacks, character assassination, and other assorted wackiness from the first few days, but then it got depressing so I deleted it all and played Titanfall instead. 🙂
It is all out there if you care to see the ugly reality. (though one of my fans told me that some of the really batshit crazy character assassination ones got pulled down when they realized it was bad publicity) Bummer. Those were some of my favorites.
Is it really a conspiracy if they’re blatant about their goals and motives?
In response to the tin-foil-hat-wearers, I usually point out that there is no “Leftist conspiracy”, it’s pretty open agenda.
Depending on your choice of definition it is still a conspiracy. Just not a decoder-ring requiring one.
“I think these are valid points, and the discussion at ML is quite interesting. ”
That’s not a discussion, a debate, a “conversation”, or anything remotely related.
And why is it not a discussion? There are people discussing, agreeing and disagreeing with each other. As far as I remember, nobody said that they would not give Larry’s book or Torgersen’s stories a try (the majority of the commentators, at the very least, were going to do just that).
Again, it’s quite a weird conception that there’s anything resembling a liberal conspiracy in the Hugo vote. Everybody can say in public what they think and everybody who has bought a worldcon membership can vote who they like. It’s not a conspiracy if a group of people (dis)likes certain kind of fiction.
So you didn’t read what Natalie Luhrs wrote the day of the announcement? You haven’t read a Tor editor talking about how the author’s politics are something she always takes into account?
Those are just the ones off the top of my head, because I haven’t wanted to read most of the comments. Not really interested in reading their crap…kind of like how I’m interested in reading a lot of their books. Not because of the politics, but because the premises sound less exciting than a root canal.
“And why is it not a discussion? There are people discussing, agreeing and disagreeing with each other.”
Any substantive disagreement gets disappeared, ’cause that’s how they roll over there.
“It’s not a conspiracy if a group of people (dis)likes certain kind of fiction.”
“Refusing to read for political reasons” is not the same as “dislike”.
@T.L. Knighton: I think you misrepresent Teresa Nielsen Hayden’s thoughts somewhat. She suggests that politics of the text (in a broad sense) are something readers always take into account on some level, whether they do it consciously or not. Later on the discussion, Patrick Nielsen Hayden writes about politically conservative writers whose work he edits and enjoys. Neither of them has suggested that somebody shouldn’t read Larry’s book. I have no idea who Natalie Luhrs is.
@SBP: No, all substantive disagreement does not disappear. There are people enthusing about Vox Day’s and Larry Correia’s work.
Dude, don’t tell me that things I’ve seen happen with my own eyes don’t happen. Thanks.
I haven’t read that site regularly for probably a decade or more (not since the “marches with Stalinists” incident, whenever that was), but as far as I can tell, nothing has changed.
Just so we’re clear here: it’s their blog. They have the right to delete comments, “disemvowel” them, reset them in an unreadably small font, or whatever other junior high-level tactics they’ve invented. I, in turn, have the right to point and laugh.
They’re petty fascists who have acquired the notion that disappearing stuff from their site somehow makes it disappear from the world as a whole. Given that this flap has resulted in Larry Correia being written up in USA Today and the Washington Post, how’s that working out for them?
1) Larry notes that the (self-appointed) Powers that Be in SFF act like fascists.
2) PtB, predictably, respond by acting like fascists.
3) Profit. I can hear Larry counting his money from here.
The headline somewhat misrepresents Glenn’s point, and Larry’s. Politics do belong in SF/F, and have always been there—but they should inform the story, not substitute for the lack of story.
(Magazine headlines are usually not written by the articles’ authors but by magazine editors; this sort of mismatch between text and heading is fairly common. Of course 78% of the responses to Glenn’s article are based on nothing more than the headline.)
Yes. If your “story” is basically Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon in space, having a thirty volume debate on whether Karl Marx is still cool or whether he should be replaced in the pantheon with Pol Pot, don’t be surprised when your Amazon sales rank is somewhere in the 3 million territory.
In light of David Sterling being banned from the NBA for his comments about black men, it’s interesting to see these conversations on Twitter about white men by SFWA members Kate Elliott and Rose Fox, and also aspiring SFF author Sunil Patel. The fact SFF’s politically correct race and gender squad don’t see the Sterling comments and the comments below at all in the same light, though they are in principle identical, is what makes the politically correct the politically correct. SFF’s PC are a permanent brain-teaser.
SFF fan and writer Sunil Patel: “Curious: how many of you refuse to watch/read something if it’s about Yet Another Straight White Man?”
Reply from SFWA member and Nebula nominee Kate Elliott: “Same is true of books. I’m increasingly less likely to pick up a book if it is another straight white dude story.”
Second reply from another SFF fan: “I’m taking a yearlong break from books by men, full stop, and dramatically scaling back on stories about them.”
Last reply from SFWA member and review editor of SFF at Publisher’s Weekly Rose Fox: “Alas, my job doesn’t let me refuse.”
SFF author and Nebula nominee Kate Elliott: “Just read another call from a white man about the need for ‘nuance’ rather than shrill ranting.”
Reply from SFF fan and blogger Jenny Thurman: “as if they’d know ‘nuance’ if they tripped on it”
SFF author and Nebula nominee Kate Elliott: “nuance is when we are complaining about what they don’t want us to complain about.”
The best part of the Sterling mess so far has been Kareem Abdul Jabaar’s piece for Time Magazine basically saying, “We knew this guy was racist based on lawsuits filed years ago. Why is this only getting attention now? And why was the NAACP planning on giving this racist idiot a second lifetime achievement award?”
Apparently Sterling has been donating thousands to groups like the NAACP for years. Money talks.
The REAL question is how long until Scalzi and the Hugonots try to get Larry or Vox BANNED FOR LIFE!!!1!!!one!!
I’m worried about them getting banned from Britain – and I’m not joking. I will be very surprised if Vox ISN’T banned, the way Britain’s been lately.
“There will be zero tolerance for institutional racism.” – Sacramento mayor Kevin Johnson on the banning of Donald Sterling.
Are you listening there Steven Gould? You got your work cut out for you buddy. And save the “LOLs” and clever witty retorts. Just get to work and walk it like you talk it, and you can start by not nominating flat out racists for Nebula awards.
“I will be very surprised if Vox ISN’T banned, the way Britain’s been lately.”
I expect he would enjoy that. Certainly he could get a lot of mileage out of it.
Welp, looks like “Top Gear’s” Jeremy Clarkson is next up on the ever-changing liberal enemies list:
SFF author Kate Elliott argues for her own banning, a weird thing to do:
“Kate Elliott @KateElliottSFF 16h The NBA has banned Donald Sterling FOR LIFE for egregious racism (+ fined him). Good for them.”
Apparently a sports league has a more refined sense of justice and judgment than a bunch of clodhopping geek nerds. Even the UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship) suspended one of their mixed-martial artists over remarks about a transgender fighter. Perhaps some day a literary organization of artists will aspire to match the morality of sports leagues. I love how the PC always go on about free speech and that free speech doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences for what you say. The truth is that depends on the skin color and gender of who you’re talking about. The wrong color gets a banning and the right color gets you a dozen roses, an affirmative action push to the front of the line for your shitty prose, and a Nebula nomination.
One of Elliott’s Twitter buddies agrees with me, but in an Orwellian hellooooo-is-there-anyone-home-hi-I’m-a-moronic-hypocrite sense:
“Leah Petersen @LeahPetersen 18h .@KateElliottSFF Trying to figure out how I feel about the NBA being so much more progressive about equality issues than the SFF industry…”
In a further display of Orwellian hellooooo-is-there-anyone-home-hi-I’m-a-moronic-hypocrite plus anti-supremacy supremacy anti-sexism sexism another homeless brain chimes in:
“Best Served Cold @TheBarbarienne 16h @KateElliottSFF Oh! Good to know they’ll at least stand up to racism. Now if only the teams were 75% female, maybe sexism would go, too.”
Always nice to see morons who’ve got their racism and sexism straight, because apparently at least 75% of people in heaven are women.
Fail, an hispanic with wrong politics is a White Hispanic, thus don’t count. Didn’t you check with the Illiberal Logic 101?
Problem is, I doubt the NBA can just fling orders like that. It depends greatly on the contracts they have. I can just see the lawyers on the phone all day yesterday, paraphrasing Kim Darby from True Grit:
“Now, have you actually READ your contract with my client? Let me put it to you in these terms. I will be making a lot of money here. My client will be making a lot MORE money here. And you, sir, will be footing the bill for it all.” [INSERT ICY GRIN HERE]
Repeat that for every shrill voice from the NBA and every sponsor who did a knee-jerk withdrawal response.
Multiply this times ten if what my buddy told me is true, that Sterling took his team from being worth $50 million to being worth $450 million in the space of five-to-ten years. I wouldn’t know, I don’t follow sports. I just love the sound of Special Snowflake heads exploding in the morning. It sounds like victory.
Maybe I should reconsider my decision to not go to law school? 😀
In 1981, Sterling paid about $13 million for the franchise when it was still in San Diego. This year (2014), Forbes magazine valued the franchise at $575 million. I’ve seen speculation that it’ll sell for between $800 million and $1 billion.
Yeah, I TOTALLY see the shareholders/stakeholders/co-owners killing a billion dollar cash cow because somebody doesn’t like Blacks. Right?
Yup, that’s why the commish moved so fast to drop the hammer on Sterling (with the other NBA owners’ support). No way are they risking their cash cows for one other guy. The owner of the Sacramento Kings told ESPN that he expects the official vote to Force the Sale to be unanimous.
Larry, your USA Today story is posted at Small Dead Animals, the biggest blog in the Demented Dominion (Canada) and seriously conservative. And a riot too. The mast head today is:
I have watched none of those, so can’t really comment. (my wife has watched True Blood and Grimm) Though I’ve met the author of the Sookie novels that True Blood is based on, and she’s super cool, so I hope she is making a zillion dollars.